Norseman Construction & Development Ltd

Builders
Toronto ON M4C 4E7
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HomeStars  >  General Contractors in Toronto  >  Norseman Construction & Development Ltd  >  Renovation of main floor and 2 storey rear addition
Private User
Private User
Private User reviews Toronto, ON
3/10

Renovation of main floor and 2 storey rear addition

We hired Norseman, based on their excellent reviews and the likeability of the owners and crew, to renovate our old house and build an addition. The owners are indeed amiable as are most of their crew. Sadly little of what we were sold with regards to services, planning, and management panned out.
1. Quotes: We were provided a scope of work that included completely gutting our main floor, building a 2 storey rear addition (including basement), and building everything back to a "finish ready" state (framing, plumbing, HVAC, electrical, insulation, drywall, subfloors). We made several comments about lack of detail in aspects of the contract and were assured that this was simply a "scope of work" and that detailed work plans, engineering, and materials specifications would follow. We were also assured pricing was complete to meet building code with minor adjustments for possible framing. The detailed work plan and engineering specs (except HVAC) never materialized and were told by the site manager that Norseman actually "doesn't do that". After the house was half-gutted we were informed that almost every aspect of the work was quoted incorrectly. We were told pricing was only included for HVAC, plumbing, and electrical in the new addition, not reconnection of the existing pipes, ducts, and wires that were ripped out in the course of our main floor renovation. Note: our contract stated: "Builders will move furnace. Builders will run new ductwork for all new supply registers and cold air returns. This includes relocating existing second floor supply and return registers where required" but Norseman then argued "This does not implicate an entire new HVAC system". Similarly for plumbing and electrical our contract stated "Miscellaneous work due to wall removals". These mistakes significantly increased the cost of the renovation (e.g. HVAC costs jumped by $7900, electrical by $2750). The wrong amount of insulation quoted in the contract for both the addition and the renovated areas (not to code). The price for siding did not match materials required in the designs/permits and Norseman originally requested a 25% restocking fee to change to siding that met code - this fee was "waived" when we protested. We contracted Norseman to remove the thin pour of cement in the existing basement, increase the head space as much as possible without underpinning and pour a new, waterproof concrete floor. After work started we were asked for an additional $11000 to complete the basement because the contract did not include the word "excavation". A compromise of an additional $2500 was reached that did not include maximizing the head room. Overall the job cost >40% more than original quote, not including the items that were indicated as extras. Work started in Nov, the contract and fees above were renegotiated in mid-Jan. When we tried to argue the wording of the contract we were told work would not resume unless the additional fees were paid up front. We did make changes to the work (removing some aspects and upgrading others) at that time because 1. the site manager had informed us of several aspects such as plumbing where our contract did not include materials that would qualify for municipal building credits, 2. we realized aspects quoted did not necessarily meet building code, 3. we were no longer confident they could complete the work as promised and 4. we were unsure if we could now afford to complete the renovation as planned. (Side note: Bank policies regarding property assessment mean you cannot increase or secure home renovation loans or home-line credit if your house is already under construction - even if you have saved all the cash to pay for your renovation + extras go to the bank and increase your home line or available credit before you start...)

2. Work Plans and communication:
We were promised that detailed engineering and work plans would be provided at the start of work only to be told later by the site manager that "they don't do that". There were no engineering drawings or work plans provided to the trades (e.g. electricians were only given a list of how many outlets and lights to install, no layout or drawings to work from; framers had to "wing it" using the architect's designs printed on 8.5x11" paper, which were not to scale; plumbers had no drawings, etc). This lack of planning and documentation resulted in frequent and serious mistakes including building the new foundation 2.5" wider than in the original architects drawings and encroaching on the property line (for which the city then required new designs and a new survey); door and window openings having to be cut out and reframed; and the eaves extending over the property line. There were also multiple stages of work where no one was sure what had been completed because there was no record keeping. No one who showed up at the house to work ever had any idea of what they were supposed to do as there were no work plans in place. Both Norseman's crew and hired trades were stressed out or angry due to lack of organization. Trades were hired, arrived, and then had to leave again (repeat scenario multiple times) because the site wasn't actually ready for them to work. City inspectors refused to conduct inspections because basic safety measures (temporary stairs, railings, etc) were not built (in fact we had to install construction stairs and railings ourselves). A significant planning issue arose with windows - while new windows were included in the architects drawings no mention of ordering windows was made by anyone until the work started at which point we were asked "when are your windows coming?". We admit we did not notice the lack of windows in the contract (and expected the charge to one of the additional costs) however we hired Norseman as a complete "design and management" service and so expected them to manage the entire project.
Communication broke down shortly after work started. While our site manager was quick to answer phone calls and texts he was vastly overextended and there was a definite lack of communication between levels of organization. Inquiries and complaints to the management frequently went unanswered, took weeks or repeated requests to answer, or were answered with contract legalese as opposed to well considered solutions. Upper management was frequently surprised by what was happening (or lack of what was happening on site). Supplies showed up at the wrong time or were the wrong supplies. Workers frequently showed up with no supplies or tools on site (we felt really bad for Al, a lovely and very competent tradesman who spent half his time on our job having to go shopping or borrowing our tools). No one (not site manager, not crew, not owners) ever wrote anything down while on site even though we requested they have a clipboard or other documenting procedure available. Trades were scheduled without the house being ready for them and had to be sent away. Norseman's crew frequently arrived not knowing what work needed to be done and asking us for direction.

3. Work Flow: Our contract stated that work would take no more than 5 months but we were assured repeatedly that the actual work would only take 2-3 months (part of the reason for hiring Norseman). The start date was pushed back twice, however the initial work (excavation and laying new foundation, external waterproofing, framing new addition) proceeded in a timely manner (~3 weeks) with contracted tradesmen. Norseman's own crew began demolition of the existing main floor in late Nov but work essentially stopped after the first week of Dec. The house stood empty for weeks at a time while Norseman's crews was elsewhere. The crew would arrive for about a day and a half after we would ask for updates but never stayed long enough to finish anything. Demolition (removing main floor walls and finishes, opening back wall) was still not completed in early Feb. The house was in a limbo state of demolition and framing for months. Norseman tried to explain this delay as the Christmas break (many weeks, not days) and changing the scope of work however contract changes only occurred mid-January when we had to renegotiate the mistakes made in the original price quotes (see quotes section above). Norseman's crew told us in Feb that they currently had 21 other open jobs. We found work only proceeded in a timely manner mid-Feb to end of April because we took over managing the project ourselves (we got up every morning, called the site or project manager to ask why there wasn't anyone at the house, created our own work flow documents and check lists). We ended up doing some of the work ourselves (completing demolition, installing safety railings and construction stairs for workers and inspectors, cleaning up after work crews, properly screwing down subfloors). Plumbing, electrical, framing, and HVAC were all scheduled for the same week in March (rather than back to back) in a mad rush to finish ahead of the contract end date meaning these trades were getting in each others way, were upset with the work conditions, and again had to "wing it" to correct mistakes and work around each other. Every trade scheduled in March informed us Norseman booked them as a "rush job" rather than on an organized management schedule. We had leased a temporary apartment until after the contract end date but we had to put all our furniture in storage and move back into the house with no drywall, no running water, and only 2 connected electrical outlets. The work took twice as long as the contract end date and 4x as long as they assured us it would take. We still have permits open 1.5yrs after start of work - while part of the current permit issue is due to a change of personnel at the city inspector office in the last year these permits (plumbing and HVAC) should have been closed in March or April 2015. We understand the owners are now putting in their own time to finish up this administrative aspect, which is good because managing the permits was part of the construction contract.

5. Mistakes, unfinished work, and damages:
Norseman's own crew were not careful and damaged many parts of the house not included in the renovation, which costed us additional money and work to repair. One of Norseman's crew cut through the stringer of our second floor stairs with a reciprocating saw while removing a non-supporting wall beside the stairs (late-Nov) (the crew actually didn't know that the stairs were staying in place). We pointed out the damage and asked for it to be repaired. It wasn't fixed after several weeks so we repeated the request more than once including all managers/owners in the communications. As of mid-Jan nothing had been done and we complained that the stringer was starting to come apart and the stairs were no longer safe. Norseman then offered to build us new stairs for $10,000, which we had not budgeted for. Their first repair consisted of a 3 ft piece of 2x6" wood attached with one (1) screw to the stringer. We complained. The second repair consisted of 2x10" board nailed to the stringer - the angle of the board did not match the angle of the stringer and the nails were protruding through the original stringer onto the stairs. This board was not secured to the floor or ceiling joists. Unfortunately the stairs had deteriorated beyond repair in that time frame and we replaced them ourselves. Grading the basement for a new floor essentially did not happen - the concrete contractor who arrived to pour the floor stated the basement was not ready for concrete and frantically worked with 2 of Norseman's crew to clean the footings and push dirt around. No gravel or weeping tile was laid as per the contract. We had also stated that the basement did not appear to be ready for concrete. They pushed ahead and poured the concrete anyway. The floor was 6 inches lower at one end of the basement than the other and 2 inches higher in the middle than on the sides. A large crack formed across the middle where the concrete was too thick. We informed Norseman that the work was unacceptable. The concrete was eventually removed and replaced and weeping tile and gravel installed but it took months for Norseman to decide to fix it (only after we informed them if they didn't move quickly we would hire an outside company to do the work at Norseman's expense). Again the company hired to pour the new floor had to schedule and reschedule over the course of 1.5months while they waited for the basement to be ready for them. One of our windows and part of our door were broken during installation which took months of repeated contacts to eventually repair. Eaves, door frames, and the neighbours' properties on both sides were damaged. Norseman eventually fixed the damages on our house but not all the damage to the neighbours. The site manager indicated the neighbours would have to make an insurance claim to complete repairs. Norseman's crew constantly left jobs unfinished (e.g. A horizontal support beam for the second floor, required to replace the original back wall of house, was not installed until April when the inspector pointed out it was missing; the main and second floor of the addition were not bolted to the original house until the inspector pointed out the bolts were missing; someone put up joist hangers on a beam supporting the main floor but didn't attach the hangers to the joists; we had to pull out hundreds of nails and pieces of lathe that were in the way of drywall installation, a 1-2" gap left between the existing bedroom floor and the new subfloor as well as the ends of the existing subfloor left free-floating). These items were eventually completed because we took over managing the project and we had nit-picky inspectors. Norseman NEVER cleaned up after themselves (except to cart away heavy debris) or the trades, and left garbage and supplies all over our property and the neighbours' properties. We ended up doing the cleaning ourselves to prevent the massive amounts of plaster and lathe debris from being enclosed in the drywall and to accommodate the work of electricians and HVAC techs. Actually, Norseman once sent a guy to clean up after the drywall installation, because I complained angrily, but he only cleaned half the house before he got called to another job - he never came back to finish the clean up (note we had already moved back in).

5. In the end the work was completed and the renovation and addition to the house appear sound. Norseman's owners are still working on closing the permits and have made sure that all the loose ends are tied up and the majority of damages repaired. Norseman has assured us they will "stay with us" until permits are closed. The independent trades that Norseman hired (framing, electrical, HVAC, plumbing, drywall, siding, 2nd round of concrete) were all competent, efficient, and professional. In the end Norseman agreed to credit us storage fees and some additional costs incurred due to contract delays.
You may ask why we didn't just fire Norseman mid-contract? We did considered it more than once but felt it was too late in the game and we were too financially committed to be able to find a new contractor. We also felt overall the owners and crew had good intentions, they just didn't seem to be able to get this job under control. Norseman gets excellent reviews from other clients and we are unsure how our job went so very, very wrong especially at the level of planning and management. We are quite sure the numerous mistakes and delays cost Norseman significant amounts of money (above the costs we incurred). One of Norseman's employees indicated that the company went through a major change in format around the time we hired them for the design phase (summer 2014) and that they were struggling with the new project management format and were vastly overextended. We have been told that Norseman overhauled their staffing again in 2015.
If you are considering hiring Norseman you should 1. talk with at least 3 of their current/recent clients to assess how those jobs are proceeding, 2. do not accept their "scope of work" as your contract, insist on a contract that includes any and all details and specific materials, as well as defined optional pricing for 'what-if' scenarios (e.g. if they might have to repair old joists after removing a ceiling so get a price per joist in advance rather than an "optional pricing" statement), 3. get a second opinion on the contract details to make sure materials exceed building code and include standards for municipal/provincial/federal rebates, 4. insist on detailed work flow and engineering specs for framing, electrical, plumbing, and HVAC (separate from the architect's drawings) BEFORE work begins and as part of your signed contract, 5. get proof of how many open contracts they have and how many jobs each construction manager is responsible for (they definitely had more than they could handle during our project), 6. make sure your contract includes clearly stated and detailed consequences for damages (and time to get them repaired), and 7. include a "contract end date penalty" (many other companies we deal with guarantee per day credits (e.g. $100/day) for exceeding their contract end date or incomplete work).

Important side note: Purchase your own windows/doors from a trusted, local window contractor. Norseman's door/window supplier (we were never given the name, despite asking, but it is a supplier that only deals with contractors) provided poorly constructed windows - we've had to have all of the new windows and doors repaired or serviced. The windows also turned out to be more expensive and took longer to build than windows we've purchased from Pioneer or Gator. Also that supplier does not service the windows once installed so Norseman has had to put in many extra hours to source parts and repairs.

Approximate cost of services:
$128,000.00
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Company Response

I would like to address the readers of this review rather than the home owner. As principal of this company the performance of all my staff from management on down is ultimately my responsibility. The growing pains we experienced last year have been corrected and the sales reps and other personal have grown into very exceptional construction managers.

The review that has been written was done out of frustration and I have personally talked to our clients and even though they have changed their review, it does not accurately portray the truth. (As Napoleon has be quoted “History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon”)

There were aspects of the job that were quoted upon that did go higher in price, as they were unknown items, until aspects of the job during construction were uncovered or added to after the contract had been initiated. Norseman does its best to try to circumvent these possible increases in price during our initial consultation phase, however older homes are especially hard to deduce the level of “creative” workmanship that has been added too over the years, before City intervention and quality control. To this, we admit our fallibly and can only strive to be more accurate and learn from the mistakes that we uncovered from the past.

We hope that potential clients will read both the review and our comments and understand that this was a renovation that may not have gone as well as the home owners liked. It was completed properly, it was inspected by the city and our professional internal Engineers. (More so than any other project we have completed in a long time) we were paid in full with client satisfaction. That we have never abandoned them, we have upheld our warranty and our commitment to our client to the end spanning 1.5 years to uncover the truth of a potential hazard to our clients at no cost. We covered cost of delay, and rewarded them with gift cards to restaurants and have always handled disputes professionally and with respect to feelings and difference of interpretation. Though we may not be recommended by them in the future we respect those opinions and feelings and endeavor to learn from everything to better ourselves and our clients.

“Our greatest glory is not never falling, but in rising every time we fall” (Confucius)

Thank you for your time in reading this. We hope you will find this informative and perhaps insightful to how we perceive ourselves and what we stand for as a company.

Kristofer N,V Potts
CEO Norseman Construction & Development LTD.

Previous versions of this review:

Michelle in Kitchener
Private User
3 reviews Toronto, ON
1/10

Home addition and reno

Hired Norseman, based on their excellent reviews and likeability of the owners, to renovate our old house and build an addition. Little of what they promoted for their company was true. Almost every aspect of the work was quoted incorrectly (e.g. electrical quoted as $5000 became $10000 mid-job because the pricing didn't include the scope of work laid out in the contract, HVAC quoted as $7000 was revised to $11000 + cost of a new furnace mid-job, the wrong amount of insulation quoted in the contract, the price for siding did not match materials required in the designs/permits, etc) so the job cost >40% more than original quote, not including items that were indicated as extras. We were promised detailed engineering and work plans would be provided at the start of work only to be told later that "they don't do that". Even worse there were no engineering drawings or work plans provided to the trades (e.g. electricians were only given a list of how many outlets and lights to install, no layout or drawings to work from; framers had to "wing it" using the architect's designs which were not to scale, plumbers had no drawings, etc). This resulted in frequent and serious mistakes. There were also stages of work where no one was sure what had been completed because there was no record keeping. The house stood empty for weeks at a time while Norseman's crews were elsewhere. It took the crews 5 months to finish demolition and framing. No one who showed up at the house to work ever had any idea of what they were supposed to do as there were no work plans in place. Both Norseman's crew and hired trades were stressed out or angry due to lack of organization. Trades were hired, arrived, and then had to leave again (repeat scenario multiple times) because the site wasn't actually ready for them to work. City inspectors refused to conduct inspections because basic safety measures (temporary stairs, railings, etc) were not built (in fact we had to install these ourselves). Norseman's own crew damaged many parts of the house not included in the reno costing us additional money and work to repair. Norseman's crew constantly left jobs unfinished (e.g. someone put up joist hangers on a beam but didn't attach the hangers to the joists, we had to pull out hundreds of lathe nails that were in the way of drywall installation). They NEVER cleaned up after themselves (except to cart away heavy debris) and left garbage and supplies all over our property and the neighbours on both sides. We ended up doing the cleaning to prevent the massive amounts of plaster and lathe debris from being left behind the drywall and to accommodate the electricians and HVAC techs. Actually, Norseman once sent a guy to clean up, because I complained angrily, but he only did half the house before he got called to another job - he never came back to finish the clean up. The work took twice as long as the contract end date and 4x as long as they assured us it would take (we still have permits open 1.5yrs after start of work). Significant work really only got done when I took over supervising the work full time. When the lease date ran out on our temporary apartment rental we had to move back into the house with no drywall, no running water, and 2 connected electrical outlets. The best comment I can offer is that I'm 80% sure the house won't develop any serious structural issues due to this work.
Important note: Don't let Norseman order windows or doors for you from their supplier (a supplier that only deals with contractors). Shoddy construction (we've had to have all of them repaired or serviced) and not cheaper than what is available from local window contractors. Also you can't contact that supplier for service.

Approximate cost of services:
$125,000.00