M And M Movers

Dec 9 2014 - I've received automated notices from Homestars that Brent's response was updated on these dates after my last update of Oct 7th -- Oct 7, Oct 10, Nov 17, Nov 18, Nov 22, Nov 23 and Dec 8th. That is 7 TIMES that he has changed or revised his story after my last response. Really? Why keep changing the story 2 months after the fact?? I think this kind of behaviour speaks for iteself. Enough said.

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* As I write this on Oct 7, 2014, Brent's response has been completely re-written 3 times now. He appears to have a need to be right and can't admit that he or his company are in any way at fault. I have maintained the history of my review and responses below, the only difference being this top portion is my 3rd response.

I've already established that Brent cost me several hundred dollars more than expected and more than quoted from other movers yet he maintains that he saved me $500 dollars. This is false. Then to further suggest that I send the alleged $500 saved (which wasn't) to 'donate' to his family's charity is both arrogant and totally irrelevant to this forum and the topic of this review. It's total nonsense. The bottom line is that Brent quoted the job but when the job took longer than expected, having had full prior knowledge of the elevator situation and relevant facts when quoting, he back-pedaled and did not want to honour the contract he established. When I spoke on the phone with him he didn't really want to give any ground but I told him that I wasn't paying the full price in light of our contract. I was more than fair with him by only deducting 1 hour, but I was really expecting him to honour his agreement in full - which he didn't want to do. There is no skirting around the issue. It is obvious that when a quote works, he "honours" it and gives himself a pat on the back, but when it doesn't, there is some kind of excuse. My point here is that using this kind of marketing tactic of guaranteed pricing is misleading and it should not be used unless adhered to. For crying out loud, we only had a 3 bedroom condo apartment on one floor, the elevator situation was ridiculously overblown, how long does it take to move a 3 bedroom apartment? 11 hours? Really? I've said everything that needs saying, hopefully Brent won't reply with more nonsense - or - an entirely new response again.

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I would not hire this company again.

My experience was mixed - with positives and negatives.

The movers were late by almost an hour (45 minutes) and showed up already tired. They took a break after being there only an hour or less. They asked us to go out and buy them coffee and muffins almost as soon as they got there (they offered to pay but we insisted on paying. We also bought them all lunch).

The move took a lot longer than I was informed by the company that they would take. My friends and I moved in 4 years earlier in 2.5 hours, it took 7.5 to move out essentially the same amount of stuff. In fact, we had more than 4 large glass tables that we got rid of after being quoted but before the move and weren't even included in the move but were in the quote - that would have needed to be wrapped and handled with care.

I had a "price guarantee" quote which already included cushion time and the move went even 3.5 hours longer than that. I was 'informed' that the price guarantee would not be honoured and I would have to pay by the hour because there was only 1 elevator in our building and the movers could not put it on service. However, a representative came out to view the premises and commented on the elevator after he came up the same elevator noticing that there was only 1 and walked our premises to give a quote. I informed him at the time that it would have to be shared because there were many elderly people in our building. I would assume that would be taken into consideration after being discussed.

That said, movers DID even receive a service key early into the move and were able to put the elevator on service when they needed to. Such a big deal about only having 1 elevator, people move in and out all the time in several hours. People that live in the building do not tie up the elevator for long periods of time, it is only a 4 story building, so once you get it, you hold it, load it and unload it in a few minutes, done! They insisted the elevator was the issue, but in reality, the hallway is huge, it takes nothing to move an entire load to the hallway, then grab the elevator, load everything in at once, then unload it all at once in several minutes or less elevator time if you are organized -- I know because we've done it ourselves when we moved in and I was able to move the majority of stuff myself at that time. To me this wasn't the issue, the movers were discouraged when they realized only 1 elevator and spent a bunch of time contacting head office to discuss the situation instead of getting going right away, and disorganized and tired when they arrived already late. They appeared overworked and under-rested, and obviously hungry having asked us to go and get them something after just getting there. It was pretty obvious from the get go. Fine, everyone has a bad day from time to time, I'll give them that.

Aside from this, the elevator situation and facts were known and discussed up front when an on-site quote was given. The job was either obviously mis-quoted, or, there was something else at play but the movers never had to wait very long to get the elevator.

What is the point of a price guarantee if the company offering it doesn't honour it 100%? In my business dealings, when I misquote something I've eaten the cost, not the customer. Perhaps retention and goodwill are not as important as in other repeat businesses because the chances of you hiring again anytime soon is slim unless you move a lot - I can only speculate?? I did negotiate a reduced fee by only 1 hour, but still paid several hundred more than expected. After an 11.5 hour moving day - for which I helped more than I would have liked, having sciatica and pain associated with it right now - I didn't really feel like arguing.

The fact of the matter is the principle, it really torques me the wrong way when people do not honour what they say and agree to when they have been mistaken. Saying that they did not realize after the fact, when I clearly remember it was a prominent discussion point, doesn't fly with me. Just insisting that "I would never do that, I've been in business a long time and know better" is not a valid point when there is a contract and clear memory of the discussion by the customer, and the vendor has VISITED THE SITE to quote.

It wasn't all negative. On the plus side, they were willing to work with me a bit on the price, but they should have honoured the agreement fully.

Other pluses - I felt the guys worked slowly in the beginning, but they were careful for the most part with the things that mattered (a few things got dropped here and there but important stuff looked after). They really hauled butt at the end of the move. The move in went much better than the move out, they worked much harder, organized, faster and they were very careful with our stuff not damaging walls which were just painted, nor furniture or anything else -- they were careful and good, perhaps a little too careful wrapping everything, but in the final analysis, when things aren't damaged it makes for a much happier customer so it is justified -- especially valuable stuff like tables and furniture. Good job on being careful.

Constructively, they should make a conscious effort to not argue in public amongst themselves as much though. I witnessed it and we received many comments from people in our building about this as well as the amount of time they held up the elevator and the length of time it took them to move out.

Other pluses, the movers were decent guys, helpful for the most part any way they could be. They work hard and we did give them a $100 tip that I felt they deserved, overall.

They mentioned to me several times how they work 12-14 or more hours a day, in fairness, how can you expect movers or anyone else to be efficient and on the ball working like that day in and day out. Especially when not young guys, which they weren't. Definitely not an easy job to have and one of the main reasons I didn't dig my heels in and tell management that I wouldn't pay a penny over the guaranteed contract price.

There's more, but I've said more than I intended to. I'm sure there will be a response, "he said she said", as there always are when differences arise, but I feel my assessment of the situation and opinion of the experience is accurate. I'm sure not every move goes like ours did and there are many good experiences, that said, based on my overall experience with all players involved in the process, I would not recommend nor hire again.

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My response to Brent's comments...

"The movers contacted the office immediately after arriving explaining the problem with the elevator." THEY WOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO IF THE JOB WAS QUOTED AND EXPLAINED TO THEM PROPERLY. "I personally came earlier to do the estimate and I own the company, sharing the elevators with others was not discussed as he now tries to insist." OF COURSE IT WAS DISCUSSED. YOU NOTICED THERE WAS ONLY 1 ELEVATOR RIGHT AWAY. "If so pay fair value and I would have sent more movers because now the crew had to work late." YOUR PRICES ARE NOT FAIR VALUE? IT ENDED UP COSTING ME HUNDREDS MORE THAN OTHER QUOTES IN THE FINAL RESULT AS YOU CALL IT. "He broke the terms of the contract and used this against us." I BROKE THE TERMS OF THE CONTRACT? YOU WROTE UP THE CONTRACT WITH A PRICE GUARANTEE - YOU BROKE THE TERMS OF THE CONTRACT. WHAT KIND OF NONSENSE IS THIS. "Didn't pay his bill in full, he paid a final amount according to HIS terms after I spoke to him, no damages, and I saved him over $500.00 from another mover, this is the end result." I PAID HUNDREDS MORE THAN THE PRICE I WAS GUARANTEED, IT COST HUNDREDS MORE THAN OTHER QUOTES SO NO IT DID NOT SAVE ME 500 FROM OTHER MOVERS IT COST ME MORE. WHERE DID YOU EVEN GET THIS INFORMATION, PULLED IT OUT OF THIN AIR? END RESULT IS JUST THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU HAVE STATED. "He did get a key for the elevator after the movers insisted but we still had to share the elevators." IN FACT YOUR GUYS SPENT TIME HUNTING AROUND THE BUILDING FOR THE KEY. I DIDN'T USE NOR NEED A KEY WHEN I MOVED IN AND IT WORKED OUT JUST FINE AND MUCH FASTER, WE JUST HELD THE ELEVATOR FOR 3-5 MINUTES TO LOAD AND UNLOAD EACH TIME NOT 20 MINUTES. "I took a regular cheque from him after discussing the final bill., he told ME what amount he wanted to pay and wrote a cheque accordingly." I ONLY DEDUCTED 1 HOUR OFF OF THE TOTAL TIME YOU WANTED TO BILL ME AT 11.5 HOURS WHICH I PAID FOR 10.5 AND THE PRICE GUARANTEE WAS FOR 8, WHICH I MIGHT ADD WAS HIGHER THAN THE TIME ESTIMATED JUST IN CASE, ALREADY. I PAID FOR ALL BREAKS TAKEN, BREAKFAST AND LUNCH. HMMM. "The truck was unloaded fast as I told him it would be." I WILL GIVE YOU THAT, IT WAS UNLOADED FAIRLY QUICKLY. "When the movers arrived they called the office immediately and told me they had to share the elevator with other people in the building and the move would take longer." THAT'S FUNNY, BECAUSE THEY TOLD ME THAT YOU MISQUOTED THE JOB AND THAT THEY BETTER LET THEIR BOSS KNOW RIGHT AWAY, PROBABLY BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO GET PAID. "I spoke to Dave several times and had him pay whatever he thought was fair at the end." I THOUGHT WHAT WAS FAIR WAS THE ACTUAL CONTRACT, BUT I PAID MORE THAN I SHOULD HAVE. "Nothing was damaged." AS FAR AS I CAN TELL (ALL BOXES HAVE NOT BEEN UNPACKED YET) I WOULD SAY THIS IS TRUE. " I would have taken more of a loss if he insisted, he broke the terms of the contract." THEN WHY DIDN'T YOU TAKE MORE OF A LOSS THAN 1 HOUR? I ESTABLISHED THAT YOU IN FACT BROKE YOUR OWN CONTRACT, WHAT NONSENSE SAYING THAT I BROKE THE CONTRACT. " He was very pleasant at the end of the move, I again explained to him, I cannot guarantee time to load a truck if we have to share an elevator." YOU TOLD ME THIS AFTER YOU QUOTED A GUARANTEED PRICE AND AFTER THE MOVE WAS IN PROGRESS, ONCE YOU HAD MY STUFF IN YOUR TRUCK. "Most reasonable people understand this." MOST REASONABLE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND HOW A CONTRACT WORKS, YOU WROTE THE CONTRACT. " I am surprised at his review, he received the same great movers the other reviews talk about." YOU SHOULD NOT BE SURPRISED, YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT TRANSPIRED." He saved significant money from other movers." I ALREADY ESTABLISHED THAT JUST THE OPPOSITE WAS THE FINAL RESULT AS YOU CALL IT. " I don't think I will ask him for a donation for 3rd world children ( read my family's background)" THIS COMMENT IS JUST IN POOR TASTE, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I HAVE OR HAVE NOT DONATED AND TO WHICH CAUSES. THAT BEING SAID, WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THIS SITUATION AND WHO CARES WHO YOU CLAIM YOUR FAMILY TO BE AS A WAY TO ESTABLISH SOME KIND OF CREDIBILITY IN THIS FORUM. THIS IS NONSENSE. Brent Routley Owner